Ok.....I have never done anything like this before, due to the stigma attatched to paganism most of us try to keep a low profile, but seeing as I had an increadably polite message from Laura (which must have been very difficult for her to compose!!!!.......lol) I am willing to come out of my hiding place for once and show the world my colours!!!!!!
So, by request.....come along and chat about the subject.......have you ever had any experiances?.......Want to know a bit more about it?......as they say in Labrynth........"ask and the door will open!!!!!"..........or was that knock!!!!....lol

I am interested in candle magic???? I know ssouthend has been trying it so hoping he will make a post in here. there is a photo on ducky fuzz of candle magic from a trusted source - have a look people!!! its well wierd - http://groups.msn.com/duckyfuzz
would love to know more about it

Ok Magenta, has Paganism improved your life? If yes in what way?

I'm not exactly sure what paganism is, could you possibly give us an brief overview?

Does it include shamanism?

Thanks

Scully

Hi I have recently started looking into paganism and to be honest in a very short space of time my life has changed dramatically. Once you see past the silly stuff then things really do start to make sence. Of course there are coven's groups etc out there that that carry out certain rituals that from the outside people may see as being santic or a cult etc. I think that we need to be clear here in that wicca / panganism is about individuality and following your own divine route. It may be that a coven etc will suit an individuals particular needs which is fine but that individual still has a choice and should only do what they are comfortable with. It is all a case of an individuals own perception. To make myself a bit clearer here If I use an analergy it may make a bit more sence. Lets say two people looked at a pen on a table, of course both would agree it was a pen however how we see that pen i.e from different angles etc would be unique to each person so each person would have a different perception of that pen. If we relate that to our beliefs in paganism we choose to follow our own perceptions. In religion such as Christianity etc we are told exactly what we should or shouldnt believe in. This is a basically others telling us what our perceptions should be which amounts to control. We are told that we all have a destiny in life and if we stray away from that route to our destiny then we become unbalanced and our lives become complictated and often unhappy. By following our own perceptions and beliefs and not be dominated by others and their perseptions and beliefs then it can only amount to better balance and happiness. There is a golden rule which is followed and that is not to interfere with other peoples lives or destinys. I am a new to paganism and have a lot to learn but in the short time I have been involved a lot has changed for me and the way I percieve things and I have found a magick in life that feels right and good.

Thanks Southend

I particularly liked your analogy of a pen on a table seen by two people. I read something similar about a polished table where two people in different places see different reflections but both see the true picture FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE. Which made me realise that no ONE religion can logically claim to hold the truth.

Balance is a word I like Perhaps if all the different factions of mankind could get together and exchange ideas, rather than adhere strictly to the dogma of their own religions, the world would be a much better place.

Scully

Paganism is a very detailed religion and there are many different branches of it (like a tree) so it is very hard to just pin down one explination, some are quite sedate followers who like the feeling of being so close to nature, others see it as a something to do because it feels right and unfortunatly there are some people who think that it is a way to shock people and get what they want......unfortunatly they are the ones that seem to get into the public eye which means that everyone seems to tar us with tha same brush!!

Coven's are a group of people who trust eachother and although sssouthend has put a very good point accross about the people's perception of the pen, there is a great deal of energy in having another person's opinion there. Because everything in life is made up of different things. I have been in two covens and I have to say that I have had more things happen to me in a coven that I have on my own because the energy created by a group of people can be imense and such a fantastic feeling, you can never acheive that on you own. But of course you have to be in a coven with people you trust and feel a connection with.

Candle magic is very a very detailed ritual, it is not a case of just staring into a candle that is mearly candle gazing. Candle magic involves a lot of planning, materials and you have to do it on the exact day, time and usually you have to do it every week for at least a month. Candle gazing is a fantastic way of scrying (like using a crystal ball) and I know southend has had a good experiance with that. But be careful......all that glitters may not be gold!!!!!!!!!

In a brief summarisation of paganism it is a very natural relogion and it is one of the oldest there is, where every old church stand, was a pagan ritual site.........and that is a fact!!!! We belive in the 4 elements and the whole mass of nature being one with eachother.....lol....and none of this tree hugging stuff!!! Everything goes round in circles and you have to be careful because what you send out comes back three fold!!!!!!............so be warned!!!!!..........lol

I have used a candle for scrying and have some experiences this is true and due to me being new to this I did make the mistake of calling it candle magick at first which I am sure I have confussed some close friends with. Candle magick as Magenta mentions is somthing that is very different and requires some very special rituals.
Scrying I found is also a great form of meditation and focusing. I think that as Magenta rightly said a Coven can be a wonderful place for people to put there powers together and achieve great things. It is not easy to clear the mind but once you can achieve it the world does seem a different place. Magenta I do apologise as I may have been a bit excited at all that was happening and got a few mixed up from a terminology point of view. mmmmm young jedi lots to learn he has....lol

It is something Paul and i are very interested in - Paul has got some books from the library and we are going to research it and hopefully give it a go!

books....your found stuff in the Library......your very lucky!!!.....lol........Just DON'T read anything by Stuart and Janet Farrar!!!!!!............total weirdo's!!!!!

It's ok Steve.......lol........I get mixed up with terminology all the time!!!!

"Young Jedi, learning well..... Hmmmmmm!!!!" (lol....you don't have a Yoda one!!!)

Just one thing Girlys and boy...lys!!! Make sure you know what you are doing before you do it!!.......you can't perform magic if you look down your nose at it and not a lot will happen if you don't do it properly and most of all...........YOU MUST BE SOBER!!!!!.................lol..........you know who I'm talking to!!!!!!!!!!

I used candles to help cleanse my home, we were being attacked by a nasty entity, we smudged and were advised to use one black and one white candle.

it worked!

it freaked my mum when I told her as she thought I was dabbling in the occult!

How I see it is everything has an energy including us humans. We can channel this energy using are minds and draw certain energies from certain things, colour, crystals, herbs, essences etc to do our biddings. Do not be greedy and harm none.
Blessed be
Shadow

P.S. How can the wonders of nature be ignored!

I bet that was a bit scary for you Dax !!! What happened???

moi??? not sober? never happens!!!

(my nose just grew a few inches i think!) hehehe lol

You know what they say Ssouthend - practice makes perfect - it will take time to learn but so worth it i think!!

We found loads in the library Magenta !!! - so many books on it all.

Learnt loads!! The library is where we discovered the site of our Halloween Investigation!!! Cant wait!!!!!

will tell you about it when I get round to it!

Where you going for your Halloween investigation Laura?

It is true that we all have energys around us and we channel things through vibrations. But you are right, you must never do it deliberatly to harm anyone, even if you do a simple love spell to make another person fall in love with you, you are harming them as they do not love you in the first place and you are violating their free mind and telling them what they should be feeling. Be very careful with anything you do as it may be interprited as selfish or it may harm someone even without you realising it. Remember what you send out comes back three-fold.

Smudge sticks work really well for cleansing, or getting rid of ghosts. But sometimes if the spirit doesn't want to leave then you may anger them by doing it and then they can get a bit nasty!!

And we don't want that now do we!!!!?

Ahhh no i would never do that!! You cant mess with peoples lives its not fair.

As far as candle magic goes it is something we want to look into and are reading up on but we wont be doing it for a while as we are still perfecting the rods and if i clutter my brain up with to much info it may self-destruct!!!!

Oh and Magenta dear, The halloween ghost hunt info has been posted in this paranormal forum for a few days now!!! Its an old ww2 airfield used in the Battle of britain

I don't think any magickal workings should be carried out without a great deal of study and research etc so I think you are doing the right thing.

Apparently on spell workings as sometimes things gets twisted because we haven't made ourselves completely clear if you add something like if this is meant to be or with harm to none, it is like a safe guard.

I suppose with all things and magic, there's good and bad, most things can be used with a positive or negative angle.

Very interesting discussion though!

glad you think so Doctor!!!......lol.....

By the way there is no black or white magic......only the people who perform it!!

I am really interested to know what everyone's opinion is on my question but because of what Magental does, would you please post on this.

I know about the threefold law and things even being returned in seven and ten fold with magical workings. I have always lead my life with the belief that you deliberately hurt none etc and what goes around comes around, but does it.

My question is does the law of three fold apply to other acts of meanness etc?

If you look back in history at some of these barbaric leaders who live a long happy life and die peacefully in their beds or the horendous murders that go unsolved. How are these people allowed to get away with it. Why is it allowed that good people can either have their lives turned to turmoil or in some cases robbed of their entire existance. I know this is an impossible question but their is a lot about human nature that disgusts me and I would really like to know what you think.

I disagree on that point!

magic can be black or white, good or bad

its the spell that is cast which makes it good or bad, a good person can cast a black spell, and it will work (if you are lucky!) just because, its a good person that casts it doesnt mean the black spell wont work.

voodoo for example can be very black.

magic can come in all shapes and forms and we need to watch our backs and not become complacent by thinking magic can not hurt us.

it can

spell go awry, curses can be cast.

Interesting point Dax but if a good person cast a bad spell then wouldn't that make the good person bad!!!!!............If they were a good person then they wouldn't want to cast a bad spell as that wouldn't make them very good now would it!!!....thats why I said no magic is good or bad, only in the hands of the person it is given that name.

Shadow, the three fold law only applies to practising magic (paganism, wicca, druid etc.) People who commit malice and murders do get whats coming to them, in their own way!!.....some get caught, some die in accidents etc. But those can't be proved!!
I only know that in paganism if you send somthing out it comes back three fold, and if what you send out is bad then you have to be very careful!!

People can curse other people, this is true and those who do curse are not nice people at all, even if it is to curse someone coz they did something bad to them.....nothing comes of that, beleive me I know, you only end up hurting yourself in the long run so it's not somthing that can be concidered.

But if you do want to stop someone doing somthing that is hurting others then you can bind them, which just stops them from hurting others, but this also can be tricky because when you bind someone you bring them closer to yourself.

Thanks for that Magenta. But can't good people be pushed to the brink. There have been accounts of good people that have killed to protect themselves or loved ones etc surely this is our animal instinct so what is the difference with magic. Don't worry I'm not contemplating any such thing I am just curious. It would be nice if the threefold law were applied to every day life wouldn't it, people would think before they acted and wouldn't be so quick to hurt etc. I wonder why the forces that be didn't instigate this........

well the thing is, not everyone beleives in magic so things may be happening to the evil people i.e. murderes etc. And they just pass it off as bad luck!!....I do know that in world war 2 a large group of pagans got together in Sherwood forest and did a huge ritual telling Hitler not to come there and he didn't. I also know of a coven who did a ritual of protection over an island where these seals were nesting. There had been poachers going there and their numbers were dwindling and after the ritual had been done, many people have repetedly seen a grey woman walking through where the seals where nesting, it is said that she is their protecter. So somtimes it can affect the bad people in this world but if they don't beleive in it then thay can just pass it off as bad luck, but unfortunatly there is no way of investigating that!!!