Firstly I would like to say a big thank you to Daz, Eckie and Doc for letting me go completely off the forum's main subjects and if I've missed anyones name then I am sorry but no less grateful.
I recently read a book by Patricia cornwell called Portrait of a killer. It was very interesting and is the lastest book written on the ever elusive killer. I have seen many a programme and read many a book on him. This lastest book however has and I quote the author using her formidable range of forensic and technical skills, Patricia Cornwell has applied the rigorous discipline of 21st century police investigation to the extant material, and here presents the hard evidence that the perpetrator of the Whitechapel murders was the world famous artist, Walter Sickert.
I have to say the book is not only compelling but seems the most reliable. Has, is or will any of you read this book, or do any of you have any views on this or any other real crime.
So my question is (if you're interested of course) 'Is the case closed?'
Hope you are all well
Shadow
Full Version: Real life crime
I haven't read the book but I do have an interest in the subject. I was fascinated by the evidence provided by the Diary that came out some years back, it was very compelling........... at first but as people looked closer at the facts provided I believe it was branded a hoax. I find P Cornwalls investigation interesting and any new facts which can be discovered will be helpful in solving this crime. I personally believe that we will never really know for sure who commited those bloody murders but its good to read about it.
Yes I think you're right the diary was branded a hoax but I too read that book and it did make for very good reading. What I like about this lastest book is that it is using modern day forensics and I find it amazing that no one has thought of it before (or not that I've heard).
Whether or not P Cornwell is right like you say we will probably never know but if you like stuff on the ripper then I think you will find this book fascinating and I got my copy really cheap from asda. They are really good on books at the minute.
Shadow
Whether or not P Cornwell is right like you say we will probably never know but if you like stuff on the ripper then I think you will find this book fascinating and I got my copy really cheap from asda. They are really good on books at the minute.
Shadow
It does sound interesting, I'll check it out mate! 
I read the book. All the way through. God help me.
I found it:
1) Poorly written. "Master Detective Meets Mills and Boon" is one way of describing the style.
2) Poorly researched. Yes. Really. VERY poorly researched. She "bigged up" her research, yet it has more holes than Swiss cheese.
3) She made unsupported suppositions about her subject. Her reasoning was very badly flawed and some of her medical claims were rissible.
4) Ms Cornwall had three pet subjects which she pushed very hard throughout the whole book: "Me, myself and I."
Don't bother to buy it, if you need to read it, borrow it.
I found it:
1) Poorly written. "Master Detective Meets Mills and Boon" is one way of describing the style.
2) Poorly researched. Yes. Really. VERY poorly researched. She "bigged up" her research, yet it has more holes than Swiss cheese.
3) She made unsupported suppositions about her subject. Her reasoning was very badly flawed and some of her medical claims were rissible.
4) Ms Cornwall had three pet subjects which she pushed very hard throughout the whole book: "Me, myself and I."
Don't bother to buy it, if you need to read it, borrow it.
I've heard similiar criticism from reviews, one thing that stuck in my mind was that she wanted to compare dna in the guys paintings with dna off the so called Ripper letters sent to the police at the time of the murders, it is generally thought now that those letters were hoaxes possibly sent by journalists to stir up media frenzy and sell more penny dreadfulls. I would still be interested in then maybe borrowing the book from the library 
The ripper letters have for many years been known to be forgeries. I'm sorry you didn't like the book neighboured, I have to say true or not I thought it made for an interesting read. I don't know Walter Sickert's work but I thought the explanation of the pictures quite intriguing never the less.
I saw another book in Asda, claiming to have solved the mystery, I haven't bought it yet and I can't remember the title, but I shall let you know!
I saw another book in Asda, claiming to have solved the mystery, I haven't bought it yet and I can't remember the title, but I shall let you know!
A journalist called Tom Bulling was believed to be responsible for the original hoaxes and at least two women were arrested and charged for hoaxing ripper letters, Maria Coroner and Miriam Howells.
Only one letter is considered as a possibility and that is the "From Hell" letter, which was received approx 3 weeks after the Catherine Eddows murder, with it was a small piece of human kidney. The writer claimed this belonged to Ms Eddows, she was missing a kidney when her body was discovered but medical tests were inconclusive. Its still thought possible that this could of been a prank by a medical student.
The "Openshaw" letter P.Cornwell extracted DNA from was never considered to be genuine, but does suggest Walter Sickert hoaxed one or more ripper letters.
It is true no jury then or now would convict this man with the evidence supplied by P.Cornwell, but I still state it made for an interesting read, and finally someone used modern technology on this old evidence.
Only one letter is considered as a possibility and that is the "From Hell" letter, which was received approx 3 weeks after the Catherine Eddows murder, with it was a small piece of human kidney. The writer claimed this belonged to Ms Eddows, she was missing a kidney when her body was discovered but medical tests were inconclusive. Its still thought possible that this could of been a prank by a medical student.
The "Openshaw" letter P.Cornwell extracted DNA from was never considered to be genuine, but does suggest Walter Sickert hoaxed one or more ripper letters.
It is true no jury then or now would convict this man with the evidence supplied by P.Cornwell, but I still state it made for an interesting read, and finally someone used modern technology on this old evidence.
Off the subject of books but still on Jack the Ripper.
We are hoping to do an investigation at the murder sites. A member of my other forum lives in the area and knows where they were and would like us to investigate there. Could be interesting.
We are hoping to do an investigation at the murder sites. A member of my other forum lives in the area and knows where they were and would like us to investigate there. Could be interesting.
I would seriously avoid doing anything near murder sites.
You never know what is still around. Mayby the spirit of the murderer is still attracted to such areas?
The Master
You never know what is still around. Mayby the spirit of the murderer is still attracted to such areas?
The Master
that is a very good point !!!!! never thought of that!
With the Ripper's murder area it's definatly a case of hide the knives! I would avoid for many reasons.
I would avoid for many reasons.
I did the ghost walk around the rippers area when I was a teenager, the tour guide made it quite spooky and it was dark when we did it
also the fact we were walking round London in the dark spooked us......all those muggers etc!!
I guess as I was younger I didnt get the full effect, we were too busy being silly and trying to frighten each other!!
also the fact we were walking round London in the dark spooked us......all those muggers etc!!
I guess as I was younger I didnt get the full effect, we were too busy being silly and trying to frighten each other!!
I've not read the book so I can't really pass comment. But, in the spirit of conspiracy, I've heard it claimed that Cornwell is in the pay of CIA/MI5 and that she has written this book to deflect any further suspicion that the Duke of Clarence, son of Queen Victoria, was actually Jack the Ripper. Now if you think that's far fetched, look at what I found when I did a google search:
And I thought I was a conspiracy theorist
Scully
QUOTE
Queen of Hearts and Jack the Ripper
By MILES KINGTON
BRITISH COLUMNIST
Patricia Cornwell is not only the world's best-selling crime writer, she is also the author of a book that conclusively "proves" that Jack the Ripper was really the well-known painter Walter Sickert. Not content with that, she has now turned her attention to the mystery of how Diana, princess of Wales, met her death, and will soon be showing a program on American TV that reveals her findings.
But you don't have to wait till then to learn the truth.
For I, too, by a fantastic coincidence, have been investigating the death of Diana, and I have come to an almost unbelievable conclusion.
I believe that Sickert was not only the true Jack the Ripper, but that he was also responsible for Diana's death.
Incredible?
Of course.
But impossible?
I don't think so.
Let us examine the evidence.
Sickert was born in 1860 and "died" in 1942, long before Diana was born. That seems at first sight to eliminate him from the suspects. But Sickert was a man who was always seeking to stay young. He hated the idea of growing old. Nor did he want his pictures to age. He spent most of his days in his studio mixing paints, trying a bit of this with a bit of that. Like all painters, he sought mixtures that would never fade, never grow old on the canvas. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that, one day, he stumbled across a potion with rejuvenating properties for humans, also.
Ah, you will say, but if he were to discover such a thing, he would shout it from the rooftops.
I do not think so. I think that if any of us discovered the secret of eternal youth, we would not mention it to a soul.
And, it is significant that Sickert never mentioned such a thing to anyone.
So we have the overwhelming likelihood of an ageless painter who has discovered the potion of youth, who will never die and who, as we know from Cornwell's previous book, was already a mass murderer. He "died" in 1942.
But 1942 was the middle of the war, a confused time when it would be child's play to fake one's death in an air raid. And so Sickert, mass murderer, takes on a new identity.
But mass murderers never quite give up their little habits, do they? And maybe by the '90s things were getting a little boring for this 130-year-old painter. Perhaps he thought he would try another little crime before bedtime. Maybe he would murder ... one of the highest in the land.
But what could be his motive? Why would he want to murder the world's darling, the people's princess, the queen of hearts?
Well, do not forget that Sickert was not English by birth. He was German (a very German name, Walter Sickert). He came to England as a young man, learned English and was an actor for some years, before taking up painting. He must have felt at home here. After all, the British royal family is also German. So it is easy for a German to melt into the furniture in England.
But when, as a very old man, he sees the Princess of Wales in danger of marrying an Egyptian called Dodi, his Teuton pride returns to the surface.
How could the most senior woman in the family, after the queen, possibly marry a non-German, and someone so very defiantly non-German?
Ganz unmoglich.
So he determines to wipe out the threat in blood.
For a man who has already done all the Jack the Ripper murders, this is not a hard decision. Of course, he is now very old. But thanks to the youth potion, he can masquerade as a young man. And he trained as an actor, remember.
So there is the 130-year-old painter, masquerading as a young man driving a car. Driving a car just behind the royal party. Into the underpass, edging up behind the royal car, where he nudges it and lets the unwary chauffeur do the fearful rest (a chauffeur, I may say, for whom Sickert has been buying drinks not an hour before in the hotel bar).
If what Diana's ex-butler, Paul Burrell, has been saying is true, Diana also had a presentiment that the murderous artist was on her track. The name she suspected has been blacked out in the incriminating letter, but I think we all know of whom she was in deadly fear.
Walter Sickert.
Or the artist formerly known as Jack the Ripper.
I shall be interested to see if Cornwell has any different ideas on the subject.
Miles Kington writes for The Independent of Great Britain.
By MILES KINGTON
BRITISH COLUMNIST
Patricia Cornwell is not only the world's best-selling crime writer, she is also the author of a book that conclusively "proves" that Jack the Ripper was really the well-known painter Walter Sickert. Not content with that, she has now turned her attention to the mystery of how Diana, princess of Wales, met her death, and will soon be showing a program on American TV that reveals her findings.
But you don't have to wait till then to learn the truth.
For I, too, by a fantastic coincidence, have been investigating the death of Diana, and I have come to an almost unbelievable conclusion.
I believe that Sickert was not only the true Jack the Ripper, but that he was also responsible for Diana's death.
Incredible?
Of course.
But impossible?
I don't think so.
Let us examine the evidence.
Sickert was born in 1860 and "died" in 1942, long before Diana was born. That seems at first sight to eliminate him from the suspects. But Sickert was a man who was always seeking to stay young. He hated the idea of growing old. Nor did he want his pictures to age. He spent most of his days in his studio mixing paints, trying a bit of this with a bit of that. Like all painters, he sought mixtures that would never fade, never grow old on the canvas. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that, one day, he stumbled across a potion with rejuvenating properties for humans, also.
Ah, you will say, but if he were to discover such a thing, he would shout it from the rooftops.
I do not think so. I think that if any of us discovered the secret of eternal youth, we would not mention it to a soul.
And, it is significant that Sickert never mentioned such a thing to anyone.
So we have the overwhelming likelihood of an ageless painter who has discovered the potion of youth, who will never die and who, as we know from Cornwell's previous book, was already a mass murderer. He "died" in 1942.
But 1942 was the middle of the war, a confused time when it would be child's play to fake one's death in an air raid. And so Sickert, mass murderer, takes on a new identity.
But mass murderers never quite give up their little habits, do they? And maybe by the '90s things were getting a little boring for this 130-year-old painter. Perhaps he thought he would try another little crime before bedtime. Maybe he would murder ... one of the highest in the land.
But what could be his motive? Why would he want to murder the world's darling, the people's princess, the queen of hearts?
Well, do not forget that Sickert was not English by birth. He was German (a very German name, Walter Sickert). He came to England as a young man, learned English and was an actor for some years, before taking up painting. He must have felt at home here. After all, the British royal family is also German. So it is easy for a German to melt into the furniture in England.
But when, as a very old man, he sees the Princess of Wales in danger of marrying an Egyptian called Dodi, his Teuton pride returns to the surface.
How could the most senior woman in the family, after the queen, possibly marry a non-German, and someone so very defiantly non-German?
Ganz unmoglich.
So he determines to wipe out the threat in blood.
For a man who has already done all the Jack the Ripper murders, this is not a hard decision. Of course, he is now very old. But thanks to the youth potion, he can masquerade as a young man. And he trained as an actor, remember.
So there is the 130-year-old painter, masquerading as a young man driving a car. Driving a car just behind the royal party. Into the underpass, edging up behind the royal car, where he nudges it and lets the unwary chauffeur do the fearful rest (a chauffeur, I may say, for whom Sickert has been buying drinks not an hour before in the hotel bar).
If what Diana's ex-butler, Paul Burrell, has been saying is true, Diana also had a presentiment that the murderous artist was on her track. The name she suspected has been blacked out in the incriminating letter, but I think we all know of whom she was in deadly fear.
Walter Sickert.
Or the artist formerly known as Jack the Ripper.
I shall be interested to see if Cornwell has any different ideas on the subject.
Miles Kington writes for The Independent of Great Britain.
And I thought I was a conspiracy theorist
Scully
@ScullyI have to say (I think we all now know the colour of my belly) don't think it wise to do anytime of ghost hunting regarding someone like Jack the ripper, thats not something you'd want to take home with you.
But the morbid side of me would be very interesting in hearing about it, perhaps the most haunted team or similar will one day do something like it.
Shadow
Well i will be meeting one of the most haunted team on a ghosts-uk investigation in january!!! So may mention it !!
Laurakafoxy you lucky lady, which one?
Shadow
Shadow
how cool is that!!!
I am green with envy
I am green with envy
<off topic>
From Hell - good movie starring Johnny Depp (could the females stop swooning, jeez everytime l mention that guy anywhere l get a barrage of posts about how hot he is ... l look a lot like him btw, or is that Peewee Herman ... one of the two anyway
</off topic>
Haven't read the Patricia Cornwell one yet, though she was a big backer of the Body Farm in the US, so is possibly more entrenched in scientific methods than most crime writers.
From Hell - good movie starring Johnny Depp (could the females stop swooning, jeez everytime l mention that guy anywhere l get a barrage of posts about how hot he is ... l look a lot like him btw, or is that Peewee Herman ... one of the two anyway
</off topic>
Haven't read the Patricia Cornwell one yet, though she was a big backer of the Body Farm in the US, so is possibly more entrenched in scientific methods than most crime writers.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.